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May. 7th, 2003 04:47 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
sabA long long time ago, LJ user ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
minotaurs asked the following:
What is it about fanfic, and slash in particular that makes it unique as a literary genre, and uniquely satisfying? What need does it fill for us (beside the obvious, smutty one)?
At the time, I was also quietly to myself asking "How come no one watches Jeremiah?"
It turns out the answer to that second one is: because it's on ShowtimeBEYOND and unless you have a complicated digital/satellite/fandom mainline event, you probably don't have it, and even if you do, the insidious WB isn't advertising it every four minutes in between the singing cookies and the dog who has teeth that are like hands, so you didn't realize Luke Perry and Malcolm-Jamal Warner had lives post Cosby 90210.
But if you pretend that isn't the answer:
Slash is uniquely satisfying, that is, it gets our rocks off better than mainstream published smut fiction, for two reasons. (The Jeremiah thing will come later, I promise. Also probably Band of Brothers and Everwood.)
1. We know these characters. (Or, you've got to give the people what they want.)
Typically, we slash canonically straight (or noncommittal) characters because we want to see them rub their hot sexy manly bodies together, but also because we've gotten to KNOW these characters, and we feel them calling out, we know they WANT to be slashed, or NEED to be, and TPTB isn't going to allow them the pleasure.
You spend enough time with Jim and Blair, or Dan and Casey, or Ephram and Colin, and it's clear to anyone with ears that these boys are crying out for one another. And we come sweeping in like the sex doctors we are, to fulfill their longing and get 'em together. We get to know their personalities over time, see them interact as straight people and we feel the tugs of slashiness and have no choice but to write (or read) it.
Fandoms with such obvious slashy pairings tend to draw larger fanbases, better authors, more slashy discussion. Which is to say, the slash fic for Sentinel or Sports Night vastly outnumbers that for, say, Gilmore Girls, which doesn't HAVE a pair of guys who are so obviously all over one another.
And of course there are the fandoms where we get two pretty boys and want to force slash upon them, and I'm afraid Jeremiah's one of them. As a slasher, I know that Markus and Jeremiah will be far happier once they've made each other moan in ecstacy, but the show doesn't necessarily say that.
runpunkrun pointed out that you'll never feel the love in an crossover the same way you'd feel it in a single fandom story, for the same reason. If we haven't SEEN the boys give each other those looks, or those touches, haven't seen them rescue each other from bears or vampires or school principals, there's only so much a good writer can do to make the pairing believable. And plenty of good writers have done it, but what you end up with there exists somewhere between mainstream romance novels and slash fic -- backstory on the individual characters, no backstory on the relationship. Jeremiah and Markus might as well be an XO, for the amount they got to interact in the first season. (Though I feel the love! I do! I swear!) gem225 told me she writes a JAG pairing with two recurring characters who are almost never in an ep together.
It also re-introduces the Band of Brothers debate, because in the series my boys Winter and Nixon are full of the slashy hints that typically send a writer rushing to her keyboard, but the reality check (these are REAL GUYS, who REALLY FOUGHT in the war and probably didn't sleep together) is too hard to ignore.
If you take slash at face value, simply looking at it as a kind of canon's wet dream, fulfilling the desires laid out on screen, it should be more logical to slash Band of Brothers and less logical to slash Jeremiah. But here we are in that pea-soup fog of intellectual property and Real People, and, respectfully, we're only allowed to go so far.
ropo said, in response to the Band of Brothers question, that she was opposed to slashing real people because it just didn't seem right. She says, about me and pene: I mean, you and G are slashy. I think you're both interesting and attractive. But I'm not writing stories about you. BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE WRONG!!!
As far as my above definition goes -- slash is wish fulfillment, slash is bringing together people who clearly have an attraction -- there'd be nothing wrong with Ropo slashing me and G. And the fact that we're people she knows, people she has a history with, people she knows the backstory of, makes a tale about the two of us gettin' it on more slashy, again, than a dime-store novel.
And probably, in response to Minotaur, therefore more satisfying.
Then again, I'd rather not pursue this line of inquiry much farther...is my window open? *g*
Moving on...
2. These boys are only incidentally gay. (Or, that one time in college...)
That's the other reason I find slash more satisfying than any Rainbow Publications paperback. You get all the Gay with half the trouble, no politics (if you don't wanna), no awkward coming-out (if you don't wanna), and your characters get to pretty much carry on with their everyday lives, being Secret Agents or Vampires or High School Kids first, and being gay only vaguely, only out of necessity. They fight crime! They protect each other! They have sex, OF COURSE, because DUDE, they're so in love. But then, tomorrow, they fight crime! again.
Yet another reason why you might be able to get away with Band of Brothers slash -- we're not saying they're gay, we're just emblemizing their need for one another through sex. Because it's a great release, because it's hot, because they NEED it. Because somehow "I love you, I need you, let's play mini-golf" doesn't have the same emotional punch.
No one doubts that Winters and Lewis loved one another. No one doubts they needed one another. As slashers, we're conditioned to take that the next step and allow them the sexy emotional release we/they crave. And it has nothing to do with the Gay, and everything to do with the fact that tomorrow they'll wake up and fight the Germans again, side by side.
The sad part is that I have no profound conclusion here, except that I have no plans to write Band of Brothers slash, though it's more a personal squick than a political stance. I have every intention of writing Jeremiah slash, but that's entirely because Markus is hot and has very little to do with the points I'm making here. But I'm in the minority.
Smallville, TS, dS -- these ultraslashy fandoms will always draw a larger slash fanbase than something like Jeremiah or Farscape, because more people see the attraction, and more people want to feel the release.
The best television sets up tension that isn't necessarily relieved on screen (and this is by NO means meant to be a tacit acceptance of Chris Carter's treatment of Mulder and Scully, because, dude, but this is an old argument and there's no reason to get into it here, we're talking about slash, Sab, down!), and asks for us to fill in the blanks ourselves.
I'm not sure I'm excited about the day gay relationships get as much on-screen acknowledgement as straight ones. I don't read Queer as Folk slash, because I find the thrill in the subversive, and in the queering of straight characters who might not know they need each other, but who'll sure as shit sit up and take notice when I TELL them they do.
More exciting that way. Will and Grace will never be a big slashy fandom. Smallville has no choice but to be. And Lex grumblestupidDr.HelenBryce is gonna be married and evil soon!
See, doesn't matter. It's still delicious to us. And we're in CHARGE, dude. Denial is my co-pilot. Thanks, Runpunk. *g*
minotaurs asked the following:What is it about fanfic, and slash in particular that makes it unique as a literary genre, and uniquely satisfying? What need does it fill for us (beside the obvious, smutty one)?
At the time, I was also quietly to myself asking "How come no one watches Jeremiah?"
It turns out the answer to that second one is: because it's on ShowtimeBEYOND and unless you have a complicated digital/satellite/fandom mainline event, you probably don't have it, and even if you do, the insidious WB isn't advertising it every four minutes in between the singing cookies and the dog who has teeth that are like hands, so you didn't realize Luke Perry and Malcolm-Jamal Warner had lives post Cosby 90210.
But if you pretend that isn't the answer:
Slash is uniquely satisfying, that is, it gets our rocks off better than mainstream published smut fiction, for two reasons. (The Jeremiah thing will come later, I promise. Also probably Band of Brothers and Everwood.)
1. We know these characters. (Or, you've got to give the people what they want.)
Typically, we slash canonically straight (or noncommittal) characters because we want to see them rub their hot sexy manly bodies together, but also because we've gotten to KNOW these characters, and we feel them calling out, we know they WANT to be slashed, or NEED to be, and TPTB isn't going to allow them the pleasure.
You spend enough time with Jim and Blair, or Dan and Casey, or Ephram and Colin, and it's clear to anyone with ears that these boys are crying out for one another. And we come sweeping in like the sex doctors we are, to fulfill their longing and get 'em together. We get to know their personalities over time, see them interact as straight people and we feel the tugs of slashiness and have no choice but to write (or read) it.
Fandoms with such obvious slashy pairings tend to draw larger fanbases, better authors, more slashy discussion. Which is to say, the slash fic for Sentinel or Sports Night vastly outnumbers that for, say, Gilmore Girls, which doesn't HAVE a pair of guys who are so obviously all over one another.
And of course there are the fandoms where we get two pretty boys and want to force slash upon them, and I'm afraid Jeremiah's one of them. As a slasher, I know that Markus and Jeremiah will be far happier once they've made each other moan in ecstacy, but the show doesn't necessarily say that.
runpunkrun pointed out that you'll never feel the love in an crossover the same way you'd feel it in a single fandom story, for the same reason. If we haven't SEEN the boys give each other those looks, or those touches, haven't seen them rescue each other from bears or vampires or school principals, there's only so much a good writer can do to make the pairing believable. And plenty of good writers have done it, but what you end up with there exists somewhere between mainstream romance novels and slash fic -- backstory on the individual characters, no backstory on the relationship. Jeremiah and Markus might as well be an XO, for the amount they got to interact in the first season. (Though I feel the love! I do! I swear!) gem225 told me she writes a JAG pairing with two recurring characters who are almost never in an ep together. It also re-introduces the Band of Brothers debate, because in the series my boys Winter and Nixon are full of the slashy hints that typically send a writer rushing to her keyboard, but the reality check (these are REAL GUYS, who REALLY FOUGHT in the war and probably didn't sleep together) is too hard to ignore.
If you take slash at face value, simply looking at it as a kind of canon's wet dream, fulfilling the desires laid out on screen, it should be more logical to slash Band of Brothers and less logical to slash Jeremiah. But here we are in that pea-soup fog of intellectual property and Real People, and, respectfully, we're only allowed to go so far.
ropo said, in response to the Band of Brothers question, that she was opposed to slashing real people because it just didn't seem right. She says, about me and pene: I mean, you and G are slashy. I think you're both interesting and attractive. But I'm not writing stories about you. BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE WRONG!!!As far as my above definition goes -- slash is wish fulfillment, slash is bringing together people who clearly have an attraction -- there'd be nothing wrong with Ropo slashing me and G. And the fact that we're people she knows, people she has a history with, people she knows the backstory of, makes a tale about the two of us gettin' it on more slashy, again, than a dime-store novel.
And probably, in response to Minotaur, therefore more satisfying.
Then again, I'd rather not pursue this line of inquiry much farther...is my window open? *g*
Moving on...
2. These boys are only incidentally gay. (Or, that one time in college...)
That's the other reason I find slash more satisfying than any Rainbow Publications paperback. You get all the Gay with half the trouble, no politics (if you don't wanna), no awkward coming-out (if you don't wanna), and your characters get to pretty much carry on with their everyday lives, being Secret Agents or Vampires or High School Kids first, and being gay only vaguely, only out of necessity. They fight crime! They protect each other! They have sex, OF COURSE, because DUDE, they're so in love. But then, tomorrow, they fight crime! again.
Yet another reason why you might be able to get away with Band of Brothers slash -- we're not saying they're gay, we're just emblemizing their need for one another through sex. Because it's a great release, because it's hot, because they NEED it. Because somehow "I love you, I need you, let's play mini-golf" doesn't have the same emotional punch.
No one doubts that Winters and Lewis loved one another. No one doubts they needed one another. As slashers, we're conditioned to take that the next step and allow them the sexy emotional release we/they crave. And it has nothing to do with the Gay, and everything to do with the fact that tomorrow they'll wake up and fight the Germans again, side by side.
The sad part is that I have no profound conclusion here, except that I have no plans to write Band of Brothers slash, though it's more a personal squick than a political stance. I have every intention of writing Jeremiah slash, but that's entirely because Markus is hot and has very little to do with the points I'm making here. But I'm in the minority.
Smallville, TS, dS -- these ultraslashy fandoms will always draw a larger slash fanbase than something like Jeremiah or Farscape, because more people see the attraction, and more people want to feel the release.
The best television sets up tension that isn't necessarily relieved on screen (and this is by NO means meant to be a tacit acceptance of Chris Carter's treatment of Mulder and Scully, because, dude, but this is an old argument and there's no reason to get into it here, we're talking about slash, Sab, down!), and asks for us to fill in the blanks ourselves.
I'm not sure I'm excited about the day gay relationships get as much on-screen acknowledgement as straight ones. I don't read Queer as Folk slash, because I find the thrill in the subversive, and in the queering of straight characters who might not know they need each other, but who'll sure as shit sit up and take notice when I TELL them they do.
More exciting that way. Will and Grace will never be a big slashy fandom. Smallville has no choice but to be. And Lex grumblestupidDr.HelenBryce is gonna be married and evil soon!
See, doesn't matter. It's still delicious to us. And we're in CHARGE, dude. Denial is my co-pilot. Thanks, Runpunk. *g*
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no subject
Date: 2003-05-07 07:18 am (UTC)