(no subject)
May. 2nd, 2003 06:01 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
sabTime for an Ambienated State of the Sab address.
Currently. I'm rewatching Band of Brothers and remembering I'd come across a BoB LJ community where there'd been a discussion about BoB slash. Here, lemme find it: (this thread). First off, this show has the best theme music, point blank, ever. At this late Ambienated stage, I don't know how to use "point blank" though I know enough to know it's not like "carte blanche." Second of all, the discussion above relates to the writing of BoB slash. There's a pair, in the miniseries, Damian Lewis' Capt. Richard Winters and Ron Livingston's Captain Nixon. Nix/Winters slash would be the immediate pairing, were this a fiction show. They offer us just the slashy things we look for (soulful glances, touches, taking care of each other, best friends, the whole shootinpatch) in traditional television programs we slash. Were this a fictional series depicting two guys like that in that kind of relationship, we'd have NO trouble slashing 'em, Nix/Winters would be the OTP of that fandom. But the question arises, because it IS a true story, and not only that, but the real Captain Nixon and Captain Winters are real PEOPLE, alive, and out somewhere.
So what's the policy on slashing characters based on real people? Real ALIVE people? In "Titanic", could you have slashed Kate Winslet's Rose with Kathy Bates' Molly Brown? Despite the fact that Rose isn't a real person, Molly Brown sure is, was, and is dead now. Can you cross over like that? Now that was of course given that someone out there is indeed writing Titanic fiction, and I shudder to think that there are.
This isn't the same as rps when it's Lance Bass and Nsync being slashed together, that would be if we were trying to slash Damian LEWIS and Ron Livingston together, say, while they were working on the set of the show. That would be RPS. But Lewis PLAYS a character, and Livingston PLAYS a character, and it's simply unfortunate to slash that the characters they play are themSELVES real people. Alive, and watching the show when it airs.
Such a tough issue. Would slashing Winters/Nixon as they are in the show -- ie, would writing a fic set during the war, during the SHOW wherein we get Winter/Nixon slash -- would that automatically insist that we also slash these two old guys we see in the documentary portions of the show -- the REAL Nixon and the REAL Winter. How far does slash extend, I guess is what I'm saying, beyond the end of our show.
Is it okay to slash these people? The problem is the CONTEXT, and this is where many of our metafandom multifandom ideas come from.
When you fic a show -- take X-Files -- you write a story set in the X-Files world. You slash Mulder and Skinner or whoever and it's set in some sort of X-Files related universe. Then if you want to do RPS, you might slash Duchovny and Nick Lea, you know, kicking it up around LA and going home to their houses.
If we wanted to do RPS with Winter/Nix, we wouldn't get the context -- we'd get Damian Lewis and Ron Livingston on the set, as I said.
But something like this, or, say, even slashing something like Apollo 13 -- REAL events, based on REAL people -- is that something we can do? What's the definition of RPS when it relates to actors playing characters of real people?
Before. I was sad about my G leaving and I watched a lot of Cube 2. Cubes and squares make things better. I am sad about her leaving. I will ache when she goes. I will not recover for a while. I might get nasty. Be nice to me. Be nice to her too. She's going off to a place where she doesn't really have friends who understand. Be nice to her when she's in Australia, having a hard time, and missing me. Everybody be nice.
Today. I meant to get book marketing done but I discovered I didn't have the right press releases and I was supposed to have gotten the press releases last week. Of course, since I only realized this today, I'll have to have another cram night tomorrow getting things done.![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
brynna, se_parsons, all of you, you want in?
I meant to do that today so I could write tonight withrunpunkrun, but tiny Ephram ate her brain a little, just chewed mostly, so she was off fighting with him and making demands, so we didn't get to write tonight. Hopefully we'll do that, not tomorrow because it's book maps and then moving boxes at boxmint's house. Maybe Saturday, after the X-Men, unless we have plans, G, do we have plans? Otherwise maybe Sunday. runpunkrun, we must write! pene, melymbrosia, boxmint, yankeeb we must see the X-Men!
I must to slpee!
Currently. I'm rewatching Band of Brothers and remembering I'd come across a BoB LJ community where there'd been a discussion about BoB slash. Here, lemme find it: (this thread). First off, this show has the best theme music, point blank, ever. At this late Ambienated stage, I don't know how to use "point blank" though I know enough to know it's not like "carte blanche." Second of all, the discussion above relates to the writing of BoB slash. There's a pair, in the miniseries, Damian Lewis' Capt. Richard Winters and Ron Livingston's Captain Nixon. Nix/Winters slash would be the immediate pairing, were this a fiction show. They offer us just the slashy things we look for (soulful glances, touches, taking care of each other, best friends, the whole shootinpatch) in traditional television programs we slash. Were this a fictional series depicting two guys like that in that kind of relationship, we'd have NO trouble slashing 'em, Nix/Winters would be the OTP of that fandom. But the question arises, because it IS a true story, and not only that, but the real Captain Nixon and Captain Winters are real PEOPLE, alive, and out somewhere.
So what's the policy on slashing characters based on real people? Real ALIVE people? In "Titanic", could you have slashed Kate Winslet's Rose with Kathy Bates' Molly Brown? Despite the fact that Rose isn't a real person, Molly Brown sure is, was, and is dead now. Can you cross over like that? Now that was of course given that someone out there is indeed writing Titanic fiction, and I shudder to think that there are.
This isn't the same as rps when it's Lance Bass and Nsync being slashed together, that would be if we were trying to slash Damian LEWIS and Ron Livingston together, say, while they were working on the set of the show. That would be RPS. But Lewis PLAYS a character, and Livingston PLAYS a character, and it's simply unfortunate to slash that the characters they play are themSELVES real people. Alive, and watching the show when it airs.
Such a tough issue. Would slashing Winters/Nixon as they are in the show -- ie, would writing a fic set during the war, during the SHOW wherein we get Winter/Nixon slash -- would that automatically insist that we also slash these two old guys we see in the documentary portions of the show -- the REAL Nixon and the REAL Winter. How far does slash extend, I guess is what I'm saying, beyond the end of our show.
Is it okay to slash these people? The problem is the CONTEXT, and this is where many of our metafandom multifandom ideas come from.
When you fic a show -- take X-Files -- you write a story set in the X-Files world. You slash Mulder and Skinner or whoever and it's set in some sort of X-Files related universe. Then if you want to do RPS, you might slash Duchovny and Nick Lea, you know, kicking it up around LA and going home to their houses.
If we wanted to do RPS with Winter/Nix, we wouldn't get the context -- we'd get Damian Lewis and Ron Livingston on the set, as I said.
But something like this, or, say, even slashing something like Apollo 13 -- REAL events, based on REAL people -- is that something we can do? What's the definition of RPS when it relates to actors playing characters of real people?
Before. I was sad about my G leaving and I watched a lot of Cube 2. Cubes and squares make things better. I am sad about her leaving. I will ache when she goes. I will not recover for a while. I might get nasty. Be nice to me. Be nice to her too. She's going off to a place where she doesn't really have friends who understand. Be nice to her when she's in Australia, having a hard time, and missing me. Everybody be nice.
Today. I meant to get book marketing done but I discovered I didn't have the right press releases and I was supposed to have gotten the press releases last week. Of course, since I only realized this today, I'll have to have another cram night tomorrow getting things done.
brynna, se_parsons, all of you, you want in?I meant to do that today so I could write tonight with
runpunkrun, but tiny Ephram ate her brain a little, just chewed mostly, so she was off fighting with him and making demands, so we didn't get to write tonight. Hopefully we'll do that, not tomorrow because it's book maps and then moving boxes at boxmint's house. Maybe Saturday, after the X-Men, unless we have plans, G, do we have plans? Otherwise maybe Sunday. runpunkrun, we must write! pene, melymbrosia, boxmint, yankeeb we must see the X-Men!I must to slpee!
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2003-05-02 06:56 am (UTC)(oh, and you can grab me on AIM if you still need help. Sorry I was unresponsive last time, I was deep into... something. Beta, I think. And I hadn't seen LJ, so I wasn't entirely sure who you were. *g*)
no subject
Date: 2003-05-02 04:56 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-05-02 06:58 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-05-02 07:03 am (UTC)let's do some math, yes? there were 7 people at trivia this week. 5 are coming to the X-Men. Allison does not have a live journal. (perhaps we need fix that)
- G
no subject
Date: 2003-05-02 07:06 am (UTC)as for sad, yes.
no subject
Date: 2003-05-02 07:09 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-05-02 07:11 am (UTC)(What does OTP stand for?)
no subject
Date: 2003-05-03 07:46 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-05-02 07:24 am (UTC)Let's talk. You wouldn't need to worry about anything.
no subject
Date: 2003-05-02 09:37 am (UTC)Because I am leading a Chi-town movie night expedition, or at least providing the transportation.
If you can get me stuff during the day, I could probably do something to help.
no subject
Date: 2003-05-02 10:10 am (UTC)Tomorrow -- is that Friday night, or Saturday night? If Friday, no can do, I'm on set all night. If Saturday, let me see when I wake up after getting home, but the answer is "probably." :)
no subject
Date: 2003-05-02 12:48 pm (UTC)//But something like this, or, say, even slashing something like Apollo 13 -- REAL events, based on REAL people -- is that something we can do? What's the definition of RPS when it relates to actors playing characters of real people?//
I know that RPSers claim that they're not really slashing the real people, that they're making "characters" out of them, but that's such a bullshit justification. They're taking attractive guys and slashing them 'cause they want to. They're using the guys' names and faces and bodies, and coming up with their "character" based on... what they know of the real guy's character! You'd be slashing not Ron and Damian, but their characters, who ARE real guys. Who, let's face it, weren't slashy. See, if they were real guys who were really slashy with each other, I wouldn't think it was so bad, I suppose. I don't know why I get squicked, but I do. Wait, I take it back; it is still bad. Because these are just guys. Not actors, who asked for the spotlight. These are just guys who were in the service in the '40s. Whose grandkids hang on the internet and probably would freak out when they found slashy stuff starring grandpa and his war buddy, because really, grandpa has always been faithful to grandma, you know? And even if they were slashy back in the '40s, well, they still weren't asking for people to, you know, write about it on the internet. I mean, you and G are slashy. I think you're both interesting and attractive. But I'm not writing stories about you. BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE WRONG!!!
Secondly. I can't say this for all RPSers, but I can say it for some of the ones I know, including you. You have moved past the fanfic stage. You're a good writer. Make people up. Seriously. You need to make up people, and make a world for them, and write about them. And sell it. And then worry because people are using your characters to write het fanfiction when they're obviously gay!!
Anyway. My opinion. Go ahead, people, slam me and tell me I just don't get it. I don't want to get RPS, 'cause it's squicky and wrong. The arguments I've seen in favor of it make me want to take my fanfic off the web in case someone thinks I am like RPSers. Swear to God. If you write it, no, I don't hate you. But I wish you'd just make people up instead of using real people and giving them the characteristics you wish they had. Most of the people I know writing this stuff ... are good writers! Who have been ficcing for long enough that they could move on and write original stuff if they wanted. But there's not really the market for an audience and feedback for that, is there? There's no web community like there is for n*sync or a TV show. Maybe RPSers don't want to write original characters. But I wish they did.
no subject
Date: 2003-05-02 02:08 pm (UTC)That, there. Not getting into the ethics of RPS in general. But yeah, I'm with Robbie. I would be uncomfortable with this, if you were to do it. Because these are real people, not characters, not personas, not actors in the limelight.
Just MHO.
no subject
Date: 2003-05-03 07:49 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-05-02 06:26 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-05-02 10:47 pm (UTC)Go on without me! Save yourself!
Date: 2003-05-02 10:58 pm (UTC)Re: Go on without me! Save yourself!
Date: 2003-05-02 11:59 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-05-04 01:31 am (UTC)That said, I also had the urge to read fic, gen or slash, about some of them. Nix/Winters, as played by Damian Lewis and Ron Livingston, are an obvious pairing. I also think Compton and Malarkey could be paired, but again, due to the way the actors played them.
Were this a fictional series depicting two guys like that in that kind of relationship, we'd have NO trouble slashing 'em, Nix/Winters would be the OTP of that fandom. But the question arises, because it IS a true story, and not only that, but the real Captain Nixon and Captain Winters are real PEOPLE, alive, and out somewhere.
I'm having trouble coming to a conclusion about this issue. All I can describe is my gut feeling. I don't think it's the real people I'm wanting to read fic about, it's the characters portrayed in the series. If I read slash about them, I'd be imagining Damian Lewis and Ron Livingston - their physical features, speech patterns, etc. I didn't get that slash jolt when reading the book about the real people. I honestly didn't think about the RPS issue at first, until I didn't find anything online and stopped to think about why.
The real Nixon is dead now, but Winters is still alive and well. Would it make a difference if neither were still living, do you think? There must be other movies which portray real people and have been slashed. I've seen references to "historical slash" around the net, which I believe slashes real people in history (dead, of course, so there's that issue again).
Come to think of it, the recaps of the series at TwoP had a lot of slashy references. Jokes were regularly made about the chemistry b/w Nix and Winters, and I don't recall anyone reacting with shock and horror.
I really don't think there are any "rules" about this. If it was written, some would enjoy it and some would be squicked by it, and others might throw rocks and dirty names about. I can say one thing with certainty, however - the music was indeed *damn* good :)
[toddles off with food for thought]