based on the bestselling novel

[sab]

Hey you, I miss you, man, I miss you so much.

We're at Lucy's, the laundromat-nee-WiFi hotspot, because it turns out Comcast wants $250 from us and a blood commitment not to steal their cable boxes, and we're not in a position to help them out until after many, many more people pay us. Like Alanis "Ironic" Morissette, we're broke but we're happy, we're brave but we're chickenshit, &c &c.

Dire economic straits have separated me from my last remaining DVD boxed sets (thank you, Amoeba Records, for your generous trade-in policy) and now the ONLY DVD I have left is Starship Troopers, awaiting a video night with thassalia and lizlet. We propose, um, any night this week after 9 pm, preferably at Thea's place because of the Great Big TV. You two hit me with some weeknight options and we'll organize, yes?

After that, the deluge!



Before I sold 'em back, I watched the full runs of Seasons 3 & 4 of Babylon 5, and then the handful of S5 VHSs I still own to round out the series, through "Sleeping in Light." Some things to note:

1. Now when I see Londo Mollari on screen I feel a strange, romantic, physical, almost erotic pull toward him, which is totally twisted and perverse considering he's a middle-aged paunchy pasty Centauri with some severe psychological issues and a very literal monkey on his back. Still, I found myself SO drawn to him, and I can only blame selenak for it. I've said it before; she makes me wanna be a better Narn. Anyway, if you or Kako or someone can tell me exactly where we've left G'Kar right NOW, I will try and hop on and make an appearance on TM. G'Kar feels the same way I do, and we are going to try and earn back Selena's Londo's love if it's the last thing we do.

2. It turns out B5 has some of the strongest, most intelligent, most complicated female characters on TV. I'm sure I always knew that, but it hit me during this last farewell tour somehow more than ever. I mean, dude. The girls run the gamut from girly to butch with no particular bias placed on either end of the spectrum -- essentially the show tells us that there is no "right" way to be a woman, that women come in all forms, with a whole arsenal of different methods of control, power, manipulative ability, strength and smarts. You've got Talia, who's a coiffed femme fatale on one end, and Susan in her practical braids and ass-kicking uniform at the other, butch end. Both equally feminine, both equally strong. In between, there's Delenn, who's gentle one minute and full of PHENOMENAL FURY the next, both a woman and a wife and a LEADER of NATIONS -- and Lyta, who is, in her own way, much the same. Lyta's independent but still gets lonely, a DOOMSDAY MACHINE with all her strength but still looking for a way to belong, looking for someone to answer to. Na'Toth, Adira, Tessa "Number One" Halloran, even Lise are all far from stereotypical, they're all SMART, they have AGENDAS and MOTIVATION and they do what needs to be done and use the characteristics and weapons in their personal arsenals to get things done. It's sort of unreal how awesome these women are. Sorkin could learn a lesson from JMS. Every TV auteur could.

3. This is kind of a touchy one, mostly for hobsonphile if she doesn't mind responding to it, and I absolutely understand, Hobs, if you don't. The question is this -- as it's a natural state of mind when I'm working my ass off for the DNC by day and watching B5 by night -- tell me. If you're a B5 viewer who's voting for Bush this year -- do you, then, not support Sheridan's fight against Earth? Do you support NightWatch? Do you agree with, say, Elizabeth Lochley when she said it wasn't one man's place to stand up against the government he was part of? Clark's political goal -- Psi Corps aside -- was to rid Earth of the alien influence it had fallen prey to since the Minbari war and also rid Earth of subversive and dissident elements within the Human population by, say, tapping phones, having folks turn in their friends who'd had "suspicious" behaviour, essentially, the Patriot Act. Do you feel this is a good idea? A good way to run a country? This is actually a legitimate question, and I'm curious, because I feel that the war against Clark on B5 must read quite differently to someone who is voting for Bush this year and someone who believes in our current form of government. Let me say one more time, to Hobs, Hoss, the rest of you, that I really do like you guys and respect you and your opinions, and I think you're smart which is why I want to hear your response to this. What DOES the B5 Earth war look like to a Republican?





1. This journal is totally spoiler-friendly, especially since I don't have TV and I am deeply curious about what's happening on my shows. Anyone want to catch me up on Scrubs? Nip/Tuck? What else is good and new this year? Tell me all.

2. Except for Smallville, in deference to runpunkrun. For Punkfish's sake, I ask that you refrain from SV spoilers. Thanks.

3. And, for MEEEE, I ask please no spoilers for Stephen King's last Dark Tower book. I am so spoiler-friendly I know it seems counterintuitive, but this is the LAST BOOK, dude! I'm okay with moderate squeeish spoilers, I just mostly don't want to know who lives and who dies and so forth. Iffen you're reading it right now -- how is it so far? Exciting? Scary? Sad?



Eh, fuck it, I think that's it. Am I forgetting things? If you have questions for me, ask them. I will answer them. And here's hoping for Internet access at the Hostel some time soon.

In the meantime, runpunkrun, selenak, _maayan and wearemany, fucking A do I ever miss you SO MUCH. And all the rest of you folks too, 'Raste and Hobs and Kerne, QOWF and Luna and Shaye and teeny Dawnlet Pares, my girl STEP and my girl PENE. And, you know, YOU. And YOU, and YOU GUYS, and HER over THERE. And JACOB, who, incidentally, is writing an awesome novel that should be read by all of you over at likely2. Jacob, I *still* owe you an e-mail. Tell me, are you voting for Kerry?

Comments

[chr0me-kitten.livejournal.com]

I'm going to have to send you Lost. It is my show to push this season. Do you have a secure address and a TV and VCR you can borrow access to from time to time?

[ropo.livejournal.com]

You and sl keep talking about this WiFi. What is this WiFi?

[sorlklewis.livejournal.com]

Bwah. It's wireless internet. Highspeed!

[kakodaimon.livejournal.com]

G'Kar was shamelessly abandoned for real life and my first fantastical duty, Lennier, straight after the negotiations thread.

I don't know which of these you saw, so.

First bitter words exchanged here: http://www.livejournal.com/users/londo_mollari/21439.html

Negotiation here: http://www.livejournal.com/users/emperor_cotto_i/16948.html

In advance, I'm very sorry if I messed up where you'd like to take G'Kar.

Regarding women and B5---yes! Yes. And conflicted, too, which is rarer yet. Lyta is a superweapon, but in many ways she's a feminist portrayal of an everywoman: used and abused by men, raped, forced into dependence, then back stronger than before without taking nonsense from anybody.

[lizlet.livejournal.com]

there are days called Monday and Tuesday. these are days that work.

and AWESOME. I'll bring, well, if there's leftover food from work I'll bring it.

There's usually leftover food.

[natoth-muse.livejournal.com]

Sabine, G'Kar, my dear, COME BACK!!!!!
*sobs secretly*
And, yes, yes, about B5 women...YES!!!! All women characters are so cool, cute, stunning!

[elynross.livejournal.com]

Now when I see Londo Mollari on screen I feel a strange, romantic, physical, almost erotic pull toward him, which is totally twisted and perverse considering he's a middle-aged paunchy pasty Centauri with some severe psychological issues and a very literal monkey on his back.

But he's so complicated, and tragic, and doomed! How can you not feel this way? I totally get this.

And I totally adored the women of B5. Especially Ivanova, and Talia, and Ivanova&Talia.

Iffen you're reading it right now -- how is it so far? Exciting? Scary? Sad?

I'm up to p.229, and so far, I'm really enjoying it, and there have been several very satisfying moments, creepy ones, and I'm starting to get anxious about how far it seems there is to go, and how little is left!! Okay, well, nearly 600 pages. But still!!!!

[bexxa.livejournal.com]

What DOES the B5 Earth war look like to a Republican?

Well, to this Republican-leaning Independent, it looks like what it is presented to be - a Bad Thing, which no decent self-respecting person would allow to continue if they could possibly help it.

JMS did not attempt to present a fair and balanced view of the political situation in the B5 'verse. Clark was in office because he had President Santiago assassinated. (That was the name, right? Santiago?) Clark's every action was seen through that filter - nothing he did before or since could be seen as anything other than Evil.

IMO, YMMV.

I do not accept the (implied) proposition that Bush=Clark.

Bush didn't "steal" the election from Gore. The popular vote and the Electoral College usually correlate, but not always. Ballots have been spoiled and thus not counted in most elections. Selective recounting and rerecounting of votes in only a few counties in one state would not, in my opinion, have made Gore a "legitimate" president.

You want to recount ballots? Try to interpret what hanging and dimpled chads signify? OK, fine, but recount every damn ballot, then, and not just the ones that would likely favor one candidate over the other.

This maybe isn't your point, but that's the first point I have re your question about how the B5/Earth war looks from the Republican side of the fence.

You mention the Patriot Act, and Nightwatch. Again, I believe that JMS very deliberately designed Nightwatch and Clark's other initiatives to evoke a negative response from the audience. No attempt to show other interpretations.

I have reservations about the Patriot Act, but Bush did not single-handedly cause it to exist - Congress had a bit to do with that. Which doesn't make it Revealed Truth, or Divinely Inspired, but let's not put all the blame on Bush. And for it's shortcomings, the act does have a sunset clause - it will not live on for ever without reconsideration by (presumably) calmer and clearer-headed people of good will.

My take on the B5/Earth war in comparison to the current US political situation is that it's apples and oranges.

JMS did, I think, do a good job of storytelling, of setting up the good guys to battle valiantly against multiple bad guys, and stacking the deck so that victory was not inevitable, nor without consequences. But as a storyteller, he manipulated the story elements so that they supported the story he chose to tell.

The current US election isn't so synoptic as that. It is possible to look at it through Kerry-colored glasses *and* Bush-colored glasses. It is possible to see overlaps and contradictions, and to weigh the trade-offs in deciding which candidate to vote for.

Here's the main reason why I will not vote for Kerry: his campaign has said zip, zilch, nada about his 20 years in the Senate. Or if they have, I and a lot of other people have missed it. If all he can point to is four months from 30 years ago, I have to wonder what in hell he's done since then that earns him my vote to be POTUS now.

If that seems as though I'm chosing the devil I know, well, yeah, that's some of it. But Kerry has not earned my vote, and I cannot in good conscience vote for Anybody But Bush.

I hope this is an appropriate response to your question.

[kakodaimon.livejournal.com]

Your pardon, but: yes.

One of the neatest things about Babylon 5 seems to be, indeed, that it somehow gives such a strong impression of a historical drama. We don't necessarily trust the narrator at all; certain bits of cloth, when tied around the arms of people, forces us to accept them as bad.

Which is why finding alternate explanations is just so fun. My pet one is "the Warrior Caste can hardly be blamed for everything," championed by deborah_judge and eye_of_a_cat, but there's a beautifully paranoid "Sheridan really didn't come back from Z'Ha'Dum, or if he did, he was controlled by the sinister Lorien" scheme one greatringmaster is developing. And oh, how I'd love to see that fleshed out.

After all, some of us left-wingers wouldn't mind associating Sheridan with George Bush, assuming the situation is indeed parallel (and I'm not convinced either way yet).

[fourteenlines.livejournal.com]

Oh Sab! We miss you too! Though there is something almost glamorous in the sound of using a laundromat for their Wi-Fi. Particularly in LA. *g*

[sorlklewis.livejournal.com]

The best part? It's Burger King's WiFi. Hee.

[andraste]

We miss you, too. Hurry back so you can help with the Londo/G'Kar Fic Of Doom. (Which is stalled at the moment, but I got a fair way into the second draft before that. Now I'm taking a quick break and finishing a couple of other things.)

Now when I see Londo Mollari on screen I feel a strange, romantic, physical, almost erotic pull toward him, which is totally twisted and perverse considering he's a middle-aged paunchy pasty Centauri with some severe psychological issues and a very literal monkey on his back.

Ah, but he's a charming, loveable Centauri. Which counts for so much.

I remember a time when I thought tentacle pr0n was only for weird anime fans (not that I'm not a weird anime fan, but you know what I mean). And it was only a year ago.

It turns out B5 has some of the strongest, most intelligent, most complicated female characters on TV. I'm sure I always knew that, but it hit me during this last farewell tour somehow more than ever. I mean, dude.

I know! And there are so many of them, compared to almost every other show I know. This is something I've been noticing watching Season One again - women just keep showing up, as business people and union negotiators and former warlords and fighter pilots. There are still a few things that bug me (I have a vid to make about the big one) but compared to TV in general? I wish TV writers were forced to sit down and watch a few B5 episodes.

[ch1pper.livejournal.com]

word on the pull of Mollari, I feel it too and just don't understand.

Huge WORD on the awesomeness of the female characters on B5. I just love how they're so REAL!

[illmantrim.livejournal.com]

Misss you-- come home soon! grins and waves randomly from a friendspage

[selenak.livejournal.com]

My dear, you don't need Londo, you need Quark, to help with your portofolio so we can both have G'Kar you back. Also, if there is one spectacle stranger than a middle-aged paunchy pasty Centauri in love (and frustration), it's a tomorrow-to-be-35-years old getting back from a Berlin party to her hotel early so she can watch some strange American sitcom (i.e. Scrubs) for the first time and thus maybe have some kind of connection with her elusive Los Angeles citizen.

Word on the women of B5. Rich and varied and very real.

Re: Bush and Clark: I have the rather nasty suspicion that if the rumours Dubya watched B5 are true, he thinks he's Sheridan. You know, the heroic charismatic leader who sees the truth, but the stubborn aliens at first won't listen. And everyone who disagrees with him is either evil or brainwashed. (This is specifically true for season 4 Sheridan; in season 5, he's shown to screw up, make wrong decisions and be called on them on occasion, but in the civil war time frame, not so much.)

On a more amusing note, there are some strange people who think Centauri slash is somehow wrong...

What does it look like?

[leadensky.livejournal.com]

Bexxa said: JMS did, I think, do a good job of storytelling, of setting up the good guys to battle valiantly against multiple bad guys, and stacking the deck so that victory was not inevitable, nor without consequences. But as a storyteller, he manipulated the story elements so that they supported the story he chose to tell.

Yes. Which means, I think, that a "real citizen" in the B5 universe would have a rather different view of things than the viewer.

Selenak said: I have the rather nasty suspicion that if the rumours Dubya watched B5 are true, he thinks he's Sheridan.

Very possibly, I think. But this is a cheat, actually, imo.

We *all* think we're the hero of the story. None of us are actually ever ignoring the dangers, chosing comfort over truth, apologizing for the acts of evil men or refusing to take a stand because it would mess with our carefully constructed world view.

Instead, we're fighting the forces of darkness, uncovering conspiracies, standing up for what's right, even when everyone around us - including those in power - want to go along with the flow.

We're all heroes, here. But, we're all Brood, here, too.

In real life, no matter what choices are made, there are costs associated with those choices. In the US election today, both parties, both sides, would like the voter to think any costs choosen with their candidate would be negliable, if existing at all. And they try to drum up the costs inherent in chosing the *other* side so as to seem as great as possible.

The problem with tv shows - and the reason why they're so easy to watch - it because they cut out the messy, half-way, grey bits that make up real life. The better shows, imo, keep those in as long as they can. There's also the habit - discussed elsewhere by suelac and serenada - of US (and other?) movies and TV shows of taking the easy out of not showing the cost of ill-timed mercy, of the hero scarificing the many for the one and losing everything.

I can't speak for B5, but FS and FF did a dang good job of showing different perspectives. FF would have, I think, gone on to do much more.

So, to keep it short not very long, what I see on TV ('cause haven't gotten into B5) is a TV show, where I don't have to think very hard about who's right and who's trustworthy and who is lying through their teeth and telling me exactly what I want to hear.

And that's what I see when I watch the news, read the paper or blogs, listen to speeches from the candidates and from politicians in other countries. Something, in other words, completely not like a TV show.

Thanks for asking, though.

- hg

[hobsonphile.livejournal.com]

Just so you don't think I'm ignoring your questions, I do intend to answer them. But not here and now, because the only proper response is a long and thoughtful one fully examining both historical precedent, the true state of civil liberties in this country, and the current national security threat, which, unlike the threat perceived by Clark's faction on B5, is a genuine one (one reason why I, like bexxa, do not consider our current political situation to be in any way comparable to the political situation on B5's fictional Earth). And that sort of response, obviously, will take time and will not fit within the comment character limit.

[mostlikely2.livejournal.com]

Yes you do owe me an email. But no, I don't mind.

The first time I watched B5, my favorite character was Londo. The last time around, it was G'Kar throughout. And WORD on the women characters of the show -- DeLenn alone, I didn't feel like I fully understood until the end of the show. Not that there's anything spoilery or shocking, not really, but I wasn't absolutely sure until the end. Could have done with more Talia. All she ended up doing was come in, fuck somebody who would later become the Phoenix, and leave creepily. Surely that could have happened a few more times. A season.

On the B5/USA thing, I definitely felt more creeped out watching the Clark stuff last year when I went back through again. Every tool's a weapon if you hold it right, though: I felt the same way watching Attack of the Clones, and that's not even that good. Even if you just look at it as a cautionary tale, "what might happen if journalism came under martial law..." oh, wait. (Yeah, sab, for the record I'm voting Kerry this year.) I don't really think that the fact that Bush didn't actually blow up Al Gore on a spaceship while pretending to have the flu disproves the whole thing: I reject the idea that the fact that they came into power in different ways derails the entire parallel.

As far as the fiction/reality thing goes, I see it, but I also think that a story, as bexxa and hobsonphile call it, could hypothetically be constructed for our times that would be just as chilling as the Clark/Nightwatch stuff, and from existing footage at that. Not to mention any self-aggrandizing documentary filmmakers that give liberals a bad name, of course, but you might even say it's been done.

Similarly, B5 could have been written from a pro-Clark standpoint, and the traitors/seditionists on the B5 station would be vilified as the anti-Earthgov liars that they are -- within canon. The telepath war and Mars revolt alone, I think, qualify as anti-Earth sedition in an unflattering way.

I'm reminded of Starship Troopers: the line between description and polemic is pretty hard to define. In the case of B5, I think bexxa is completely right: it's entertainment, so it's written to the progressive malcontent in all of us, and the lone heroes standing against corruption, etc etc. What I think we might be missing is that the reason this viewpoint is so accessible, especially in SF, is that a lot of people feel that way a lot of the time. Especially right now, in this country. Which means that the story a lot of us are telling ourselves lines us up with the story of the B5 crew during Clark's presidency, which means that it is very much true to our own feelings on the subject.

Sabine! Thanks for the likely2 shoutout!

[julianlee.livejournal.com]

I just felt the need to say that I love you. Also, I love your icons, par-tic-u-lar-ly the "Holes" & "Northern Exposure" ones. That's all. I have nothing else useful to contribute. I suck.