a vague disclaimer is nobody's friend
Mar. 16th, 2004 07:07 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
sabSo, years ago, back before DVD boxed sets and bitorrents and the ability to eat an entire fandom at one sitting, full swallow, one disc after another, I told myself, someday, I'll watch Buffy. And, you know, that's "like" like, like, I'll watch Buffy in a fannish way, because of course, being in the fannish community for going on almost fifteen years now nothing fannish escapes my radar entirely, and being a TV watcher to some degree all of this time -- and fannish TV, at that -- of course I was always sort of peripherally exposed to Buffy, I knew all the major players, I knew to tune in to "Hush" and "The Body" and the musical, I even had a pal on the writing staff for a while (cf. "Lovers Walk" and "The Zeppo"). I knew Willow before Oz, and then before she was a lesbian, I could throw around names like Drusilla and phrases like "Fire bad, tree pretty" and be able to give some immediate context to said.
But none of this, as we know, is anything like watching a show from a fannish bent, devouring it end to end like a big juicy fannish sausage and watching for mytharc, for 'ship, for slash and squick and whatever else it is we do.
When I caught up on X-Files -- when I went from proximity-viewer to fannish-viewer (the summer of the movie, for those playing the home game), it was nineteen thousand trips to Blockbuster watching two eps at a time till I caught up to what FX was showing, and then there was lots of taping and waiting and I was only about three seasons in when the new season began the following October.
At that time, I knew about Buffy, I'd sort of stashed Buffy away in a little box figuring if I were ever dry for fandoms I would have this major haul to drag out and feast upon, figured I could give it a whole summer and I would save it till I needed it.
I so emphatically don't need another fandom right now, but, guess what, three days later -- three days -- and I'm halfway through season four. Actually, I cheated, and I skipped season one, figuring I'll go back to it when the rest of four, and all of five get burned to cd, and six gets downloaded. HAIL DVD box sets, I say to you, and YAY bitorrents, and YAY, YAY fandom.
So, first pass through Buffy and here's my initial thoughts.
I am all over the Buffy/Giles ship. I had no idea -- and you'd think, given my notoriously public disdain for all things poncy, that Giles would rankle me (like, say, Wes rankles me) -- but yet, I am so all about it.
Additionally, I like Buffy herself a whole lot more than I expected to. She's just my kind of reluctant hero, and Giles is just my kind of reluctant-hero worshipper, and the Slayer/Watcher bond is about the tastiest thing fandom's come up with for us in a good long while.
I'm still walking the line on the rest of the Scoobies, example, I like Xander with Cordelia, or Xander with Anya, but not Xander/Willow or Xander alone. I like Willow with Oz, or with Buffy, or Buffy, Willow, and Xander together. I like Cordelia anywhere, and she even made Wesley tolerable a while. I like Anya too, but I'm sort of working backwards with her because I watched more Buffy in the later years than I did in the early years, so I have yet to assemble her character fully.
Angel's a big dumb broody stiff, and Riley can bite me, but Buffy makes both of them come alive. I'm undecided on Spike, see above Anya problem.
Despite Eliza Dushku's unimpeachable holy hotness, I thought Faith was a big ol' scenery chewer, though I liked her with the Mayor, because the Mayor rocked my socks.
I'm not convinced by the college years yet. I miss Sunnydale High, and so far, season 4's doing nothing for me except being vaguely shiny and glossy and Willow has better hair. But I miss Cordelia and I feel like I liked the early gang better -- then, that could be the Giles fan in me crying out for more of him.
I make no pretense of ownership in this fandom -- many fans have come before me and many will come after and I am but a passerby -- but boy howdy I'm having a good time.
And I fucking love Buffy/Giles. So. Fic recs, please?
But none of this, as we know, is anything like watching a show from a fannish bent, devouring it end to end like a big juicy fannish sausage and watching for mytharc, for 'ship, for slash and squick and whatever else it is we do.
When I caught up on X-Files -- when I went from proximity-viewer to fannish-viewer (the summer of the movie, for those playing the home game), it was nineteen thousand trips to Blockbuster watching two eps at a time till I caught up to what FX was showing, and then there was lots of taping and waiting and I was only about three seasons in when the new season began the following October.
At that time, I knew about Buffy, I'd sort of stashed Buffy away in a little box figuring if I were ever dry for fandoms I would have this major haul to drag out and feast upon, figured I could give it a whole summer and I would save it till I needed it.
I so emphatically don't need another fandom right now, but, guess what, three days later -- three days -- and I'm halfway through season four. Actually, I cheated, and I skipped season one, figuring I'll go back to it when the rest of four, and all of five get burned to cd, and six gets downloaded. HAIL DVD box sets, I say to you, and YAY bitorrents, and YAY, YAY fandom.
So, first pass through Buffy and here's my initial thoughts.
I am all over the Buffy/Giles ship. I had no idea -- and you'd think, given my notoriously public disdain for all things poncy, that Giles would rankle me (like, say, Wes rankles me) -- but yet, I am so all about it.
Additionally, I like Buffy herself a whole lot more than I expected to. She's just my kind of reluctant hero, and Giles is just my kind of reluctant-hero worshipper, and the Slayer/Watcher bond is about the tastiest thing fandom's come up with for us in a good long while.
I'm still walking the line on the rest of the Scoobies, example, I like Xander with Cordelia, or Xander with Anya, but not Xander/Willow or Xander alone. I like Willow with Oz, or with Buffy, or Buffy, Willow, and Xander together. I like Cordelia anywhere, and she even made Wesley tolerable a while. I like Anya too, but I'm sort of working backwards with her because I watched more Buffy in the later years than I did in the early years, so I have yet to assemble her character fully.
Angel's a big dumb broody stiff, and Riley can bite me, but Buffy makes both of them come alive. I'm undecided on Spike, see above Anya problem.
Despite Eliza Dushku's unimpeachable holy hotness, I thought Faith was a big ol' scenery chewer, though I liked her with the Mayor, because the Mayor rocked my socks.
I'm not convinced by the college years yet. I miss Sunnydale High, and so far, season 4's doing nothing for me except being vaguely shiny and glossy and Willow has better hair. But I miss Cordelia and I feel like I liked the early gang better -- then, that could be the Giles fan in me crying out for more of him.
I make no pretense of ownership in this fandom -- many fans have come before me and many will come after and I am but a passerby -- but boy howdy I'm having a good time.
And I fucking love Buffy/Giles. So. Fic recs, please?
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2004-03-16 07:17 am (UTC)Er, that's all I had to say. I don't actually read Buffy fic, so I can't rec you anything.
no subject
Date: 2004-03-16 07:33 am (UTC)That being said -- and Jack/Thor aside -- I would so totally read Anya/Giles.
Does Anya remind anyone else of what Seven of Nine might be like with a sense of humor?
Oooh, Anya/7 XO, hmmmmmmmm.
no subject
Date: 2004-03-16 07:18 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-03-16 07:39 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-03-16 08:08 am (UTC)Do it anyway. Yes. (pleasepleaseplease!!!)
:::we now return you to your regular breathing schedule:::
no subject
Date: 2004-03-16 08:46 am (UTC)After I write the ninety seven other things I have to write. Goddamn new fandoms come up and bite you on the neck and the next thing you know, SPLAT, you're a vampire. Fuckin' A.
And I have to read some more, too. I'm new, yo! New.
no subject
Date: 2004-03-16 08:55 am (UTC)It's fun, innit? New territory to explore!
People have been talking lately about what it means to be fannish, and I don't think I'm actually fannish about Buffy or Angel -- even though I've seen all of the eps multiple times, know the stories, the characters, the arcs. I'm not active. I don't seek it out and think about it in my down time. For now, I reserve that position for Stargate. But I do like me some occasional Buffy/Giles, and none of my other friends are into it, so I'm aaaaall alone (*sniffle*) out here, adrift, looking for a fix... *g*
no subject
Date: 2004-03-16 09:00 am (UTC)Okay. We'll hook each other up. The watcher-type figure/hero-type figure pairing has always hit my kink; when it doesn't show up in other fandoms I force it there -- you shoulda seen what I did with poor Mulder and Scully, not to mention poor Jeremiah and Markus and poor Josh and Sam. I love the reluctant, embittered genius and their staunchest supporter, nudging them, encouraging them to fly. Also, then, with sex too.
So Giles/Buffy's hit my usual fandom kink, and I don't see I have much choice in the matter.
New fandom? BIG FUN.
no subject
Date: 2004-03-16 09:25 am (UTC)Josh wants to be the guy the guy counts on. *sigh*sigh*sigh*
no subject
Date: 2004-03-16 07:25 am (UTC)buffygiles.com (http://www.buffygiles.com) has a ton of fic, but as with all archives it's a question of panning for gold.
no subject
Date: 2004-03-16 07:42 am (UTC)Also, I feel like -- I want a sort of USTy GilesPOV angsty something. Not necessarily a consummate romance something, certainly not a songfic, but also, nobody has to be dead. It seems that's a hard in-between here in this pairing I seem to have discovered, this pairing that seems to belong exclusively to middle-school girls and the sorts of people who like to get their characters pregnant a lot.
Woe is me!
no subject
Date: 2004-03-16 07:46 am (UTC)You might like Athenae's stuff, let me pull up a link... ah, here it is. (http://www.fanfiction.net/profile.php?userid=378649) It's not wholely B/G but When It Alteration Finds is Giles/Dawn and therefore the Greatest Thing Ever. If you're me.
Welcome to the Buffyverse
Date: 2004-03-16 07:58 am (UTC)There is a lot of Buffy/Giles out there. For a long time, you couldn't stumble across a Giles website without finding it full of Buffy/Giles content. Which was a problem for me because while I like Buffy, and I like Giles, and I like the relationship between them, I really really can't see them in a romantic context. It's the father thing. Yes, she's got a biological one as well, but Giles is her father emotionally, that's how she sees him, Restless where we get into everyone's heads makes it crystal clear Giles sees her as his child, and mentor/student pairings, when one or both parties see each other as parent/child are one of my few genuine squicks.
This being said.
Wesley: I was also one of the few people who liked him before it became fashionable. I felt sorry for him in season 3 when he was taking the brunt for what wasn't his fault, i.e. the behaviour of the CoW. (Quentin Travers knew Buffy would reject the first Giles replacement, if you ask me, and hence sent someone he regarded expendable.) Of course, then we got Wes being turning up at Angel mid-first season and going through one of the best character developments (over the course of several seasons, step by step) I've seen on tv, which is why these days you find pretty much every Jossverse fan drooling about him. It's both the writing and Alexis Denisof being an amazing actor, who sold the journey from Dork!Wes to Dark!Wes (who makes Ripper look balanced) every step on the way.
(Buffyverse trivia: Anthony Stewart Head (i.e. Giles) and Alexis Denisof appeared together in The Rope on stage years pre-show, which is why ASH recced AD to Joss for what was originally just a part for two episodes. The plan being to kill Wesley off in Consequences. But Joss liked AD's gift for comedy and decided to keep Wesley alive for the rest of the season, which turned out to be a stroke of luck one year later when they needed a quick replacement for Glenn Quinn on AtS, and an actor who they knew would be reliable. The writers then started to move Wes from comic relief to serious character which, see, above.)
Oh, yeah, and am supporting whoever recommended Anya/Giles here. Also Giles/Ethan. And I've got a soft spot for Giles/Joyce.
Re: Welcome to the Buffyverse
Date: 2004-03-16 08:49 am (UTC)And yeah, her Giles/Buffy is pretty damn good, and was able to handle the fact that I get all squicky over that relationship. Go here.
Re: Welcome to the Buffyverse
Date: 2004-03-16 10:58 am (UTC)(Anyway, with Giles/Any Scooby I have, leaving the wrongness of mentor/student aside, this vision of them ten years later when he's starting to complain about gout and they're in their mid-twenties...)
Patiently awaiting certain posts...
Re: Welcome to the Buffyverse
Date: 2004-03-16 09:08 am (UTC)Anyway, right there with you on Anya/Giles, Giles/Ethan and Giles/Joyce, though Giles/Dawn is a little too far beyond for even me.
I still owe you feedback. And some t_m responses. I haven't forgotten about any of those things. Just four more episodes! *eg*
no subject
Date: 2004-03-16 08:16 am (UTC)I'm not there with you on the Buffy/Giles 'ship, although they did have a few moments here and there that made me wonder. And I did read at least one good B/G fic a couple years ago, though naturally now I couldn't begin to tell you what it was, other than dark.
I like Xander, although he did have to grow on me, and I liked Xander/Willow because it made them act like they were grade schoolers breaking yellow crayons together. I actually like everyone individually in different ways, even when they annoy me/piss me off, including Wes, who was dorkily funny and earnest early on, and then developed into Teh Hotness on AtS. The Mayor was the best, of course, and Angel better as Angelus.
(As an aside, I don't see how people can say DB can't act after seeing him flip the switch between Angel and Angelus. I mean, really. Of course, I also like things like Vamp!Willow in "The Wish" and "Dopplegangland," Ripper emerging in "Band Candy," and ... hrm, you may not have seen that other one yet, so I'll leave out the spoilery bit. Anyway, I just love watching actors switching up on their usual roles. Stretching = good.)
How I do ramble. Anyway. Enjoy the Buffylove. :)
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Date: 2004-03-16 08:20 am (UTC)Buffy is the third in the Holy Trinity of Fandomination. Star Trek(s), X-Files and Buffy. Each perfect in their own way.
no subject
Date: 2004-03-16 08:23 am (UTC)oh, oh, but there's Wes on Angel, who is hot, hot, hot. And did I mention HAWT? And if you're on season 4 of Buffy, then you must dl season 1 of Angel. Buffy is a two for the price of one fandom.
no subject
Date: 2004-03-16 09:27 am (UTC)I didn't pick it up until season 6 and then I went back and watched it all, as you've been doing. Season five is unbelievable, probably my favorite, with a tie only at season 3.
And Buffy/Giles in season seven? Yeah, I can see it. Now that they're apart. But secretly, I'm all about the Spuffy. I love me some Spike. He's my favorite; the original fool for love.
aside
Date: 2004-03-16 09:44 am (UTC)That said, three thousand words of boy!Jake/Hamilton? ::eyebrow waggle::
Re: aside
Date: 2004-03-16 10:04 am (UTC)That said, three thousand words of boy!Jake/Hamilton? ::eyebrow waggle::
Share!
Re: aside
Date: 2004-03-16 10:09 am (UTC)The comment showed up! Only I still can't see it. Wacky world.
Now, where are all those YA aficionados?
Re: aside
Date: 2004-03-16 10:15 am (UTC)Re: aside
Date: 2004-03-16 10:16 am (UTC)That icon is all kinds of adorable, btw.
no subject
Date: 2004-03-16 09:58 am (UTC)The Watcher/Slayer bond *is* very tasty, isn't it? Particularly when you think about what it probably was in other cases, where the Watcher retained complete control with an almost xenophobic attitude toward the rest of the world. Very claustrophobic. Very tense. Very co-dependent. It's rather Mulder/Scullyish.
Oh, and Wesley does improve dramatically. You ought to start watching Angel season 1 along with Buffy season 4, because there are several crossovers (particularly in the Faith arc) that are quite cool. Also, the show is notorious for making fun of Angel, almost constantly, which I find very comforting since I never liked him to start with, either. And there's an almost X-Files-y feel to it. Season 1 is kind of uneven, but it builds well toward the end, and Season 2 is kickass. (Season 3 has a lot-- a LOT-- of cringeworthy stuff, but some amazing stuff, too, and then Season 4 was very tasty.)
I will admit that Angel has grown on me; he is just the worst hero ever. Not only is he *literally* his own worst enemy, but the worst of the Big Bads he's had to face (and they don't do neat, tidy arcs like Buffy did-- it all slops over from year to year) are the ones he created himself. He only wants to have real relationships with people and he doesn't have the foggiest idea how to do it. He bumbles and stumbles and has a thing for Barry Manilow songs. He fucks up completely at least once a season. Hits low points with regularity. Goes on with the hero gig anyway. I can't help but like the big dumb lug.
Lordy, lordy, welcome aboard, Sab!
no subject
Date: 2004-03-16 10:20 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-03-16 10:37 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-03-16 10:46 am (UTC)Neither of those are Buffy/Giles, but they're oh so very good anyway.
Do watch Season 1: it's good and you need the baseline.
no subject
Date: 2004-03-16 10:46 am (UTC)Of course, there is buffygiles, if you're persistent. :-) But, yes, it's almost as bad as looking through ff.net, so beware!
Buffyfic
Date: 2004-03-16 01:50 pm (UTC)Gotta second Polyamorous Recs and Yahtzee. Check out eterniata eros http://www.eterniata.com/textonly.html
I just know there's more out there, but I'm blanking...
:)pg
no subject
Date: 2004-03-16 02:55 pm (UTC)That said, my idea of good Buffy/Giles is: [a] where it is a weird kinky father/daughter thing, but is treated as either a fetish rather than a real dynamic, or [b] is written in a dark way.
Thus: Electra (http://www.dymphna.net/fanfic/electra.html) by Kate Bolin, who is not a Buffy/Giles fan but wrote an incredible Buffy/Giles fic.
I'm sure that I've read some other good fic for that pairing,b ut I can't for the life of me remember anything about it at the moment.
no subject
Date: 2004-03-16 03:02 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-03-16 11:25 pm (UTC)Only, you know, you were already online and got into the fandom, whereas our old Mac at home was still lumbering by on some ungodly-low RAM and no modem at all, and so I ventured, blinking, into a world where buying XF books and taping and meticulously labelling all of the episodes wasn't weird, and didn't hear of fanfiction until that December.
Also, it was the local local video store the entire two weeks I was sick after my wisdom teeth were removed. And season six had started before I convinced my parents to get cable.
But. You know. Mostly the same thing.
no subject
Date: 2004-04-15 05:05 am (UTC)