sab

Okay. /rubs hands together

Just as an opportunity to get it out, think aloud, bother you nice people with aimless cheers of characterization and non-said...

Crichton. Josh Lyman. Scully. Other people I've beaten to death and made me, though maybe not so much anymore.

I'm working on this long Mandy story, and she's nothing like me, but she's scraped together a personality for herself so far beyond anything Sorkin or Moira Kelly ever intended, begs that fanfic question again. but then, we talked x, y, z and battlefields. And Crichton, Crichton, Crichton.

Crichton. Two years a mission -- I'm just trying to get home. And I don't think it's left him, not all the way, despite what the opening credits say now. Two years chasing Scorpius, chasing his own tail. Scorpius and the wormholes becoming everything Crichton's reaching for -- very literally occupying all the space in his brain. Stupid Ancients. Wonderful Harvey. So yeah, he's in love with Aeryn, and yeah, he doesn't want, exclusively, to get home anymore. But even then, even between the almost-glances and the touches and the You Are Everythings, Harvey's still in his head, reminding him. The wormhole data is still there.

This boy lives for wormholes, and in 321 he gets his chance to waltz with one. And I think it's clear in the episode that the wormholes are more important to him than Aeryn, for a time. And he might pretend it's to help Scorpy in his revenge against the Scarrans, but that's not what it is. Not my boy. It's his wormhole knowledge, unlocked and pouring out, the holy grail. Maybe to get home. Maybe to blow shit up. Maybe to die in, like the other John. Maybe just to look at. Trophy wormholes. But this Crichton is tilting at Scarran windmills while Rome burns, or something, and he doesn't see Aeryn at all.

Until, until until until, Crais dies. I suspect. Because that's the second time someone close to Crichton lost his life to protect the universe from wormholes. Crichton's wormholes. To protect the universe from Crichton, really. And it's someone close to Aeryn, both times, and I think she's bright enough to see the wormholes in Crichton's eyes. Two people died to protect her from him. Martyrs, like she could never be.

So because of that, I think it's a long time coming before she can quite trust him again, and a long time before he'll be able to shake off the guilt and feel whole again. 322 be damned (and I haven't seen it anyway, but I know, I've heard) -- I feel like we're talking about a deeper Crichton here. Or maybe it's just me. But anyway.

He's got guilt, and because of that inadequacy -- two deaths on his watch and they're almost his fault. And she's got inadequacy, because John and Crais were able to stand up to this Crichton/to wormholes and die, and she's just a little bit too much in love with him to do it. And she hates herself for it. Tough for an ex-PK, tougher still for one whose already lost a Crichton she loved.

So you see, that's where I was coming from in Not Dead. Jealousy meets inadequacy, guilt meets rage, self-hatred meets itself head on. And underneath it all, this horrible abiding love that's ruining everything. For now.

Maybe I'll change my mind when I see 322. Maybe I'm all wet already. Dunno, can't tell, because this stupid John is living in my brain, like Harvey.

So convince me otherwise, will you?

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

From: (Anonymous)

Ah! Here it is. I don't think this John's a hero at all. I think this John has been looking for the easy outs, and he gets pushed the side when real people with real plans (!!) make real sacrifices. (Crichton says to Aeryn, after Crais presents the plan: "Tell me you believe him." She says, "do you have a plan to destroy the ship?" "Not yet.") I mean, honestly, what does this John do in 321? Aside from coincidentally get distracted by Scorpy and thereby distract Scorpy?

I'm sticking to that bit, because it's the real point of contention here. Hell, could be the Great Wall of China considering how much I can't even start to guess where that's coming from.

This John isn't a hero? I feel like we're back to the great TJohn vs MJohn debate. One all around successful and likable, the other just an annoying jerk.

If you don't think surrendering yourself to the guy who *tortured* you, surrounded by 50 000 people who want you dead is heroic, I don't know what is. John put that thing in motion, he didn't force anyone to come with him. That he is reaching the end of his rope and emotional exhaustion takes over,making him indecisive and sloppy, fine. But that's unrelated to his motives. He's just scared out of his mind, and fear makes it hard to think clearly. That doesn't taint his intent, that just makes him human. I don't equate fear with cowardice.

This John is the one who had to struggle, the one who got nothing, the one who was lost. Aeryn wasn't handed to him on a platter, wormholes weren't unlocked the easy way, and he's had to clean up someone else's mess. What more do you want from him?

(This word limit is driving me nuts...)

From:

iamsab.livejournal.com

Ahoy! It's not as bad as we thought!

This John is the one who had to struggle, the one who got nothing, the one who was lost. Aeryn wasn't handed to him on a platter, wormholes weren't unlocked the easy way, and he's had to clean up someone else's mess. What more do you want from him?

I totally agree! This John has gotten nothing but the shaft since the day the ships split. Hell, he had to revert to cartoons to make sense of his addled mind.

Where we differ, I guess, is in interpreting how he reacts to it. I think he's retreated into himself, searching for things to cling to, a way to get to Aeryn, a way to make sense of his purpose out here in the UT. And he's casting about trying to find it. Jealous, a little dwarfed by the actions of the people around him -- but he just feels like he didn't get the opportunities. The other John got Aeryn easy, the wormholes easy, a hero's death easy. And this John can't, no matter how hard he tries. He fights with D'Argo just to have something to fight with.

Stark's mask comes and tells him, "here's your legacy, destroy wormhole technology." And he's not sure he wants to, certainly not just because the other John told him to. This John wants to judge for himself.

And he gets to the carrier and gets seduced by wormholes and Scorpius and research, and that's something that can be his alone, something the other John didn't have. And that's his victory.

If you don't think surrendering yourself to the guy who *tortured* you, surrounded by 50 000 people who want you dead is heroic, I don't know what is.

I don't! I think it's the only option left to him. I think he wants it to be heroic, but in truth it's actually something he wants to do. He's had Harvey in his head a long time. Scorpy's not just "the guy who tortured him." Scorpy's a big part of his life. I never saw any evidence he cared about the other people on the command carrier (Aeryn had to remind him they were there!) -- he came for the wormholes, wanted to feel 'em out, see where he stood. And then he tasted them and got hooked. Crawled inside the information from his brain and got hooked.

The easy out would be *not* to go after Scorpy. As a matter of fact, the real easy out for this guy would have been to kill himself. He didn't have any support, *none*. He didn't have his friends around him, and Aeryn, for all she contributed, could as well have not been there. He was on his own and he still came through. Just facing Scorpy was a sacrifice in itself. Anyone else would have frozen solid when confronted with their torturer.

Totally agree with this too -- except, 180 degrees removed. I think he's lost and alone and without support, and that's why he turns to Scorpius. Scorpy's the one doing the one thing John still understands. Aeryn is not there. She's no help.

Maybe the question is this: why do you think he went to the command carrier? I mean, do you think it was to protect the universe from wormhole weapons at all cost? Do you think it was a noble goal? Because I just don't see this John -- after all he's been through, so alone -- having that kind of altruism in him. Maybe it's a last-ditch attempt to do something worthwhile with his life -- but that comes from insecurity, jealousy, fear, as well. Which is where I keep trying to put him. In the shadow of all these things bigger than he is. And if now that -- why? For Aeryn? Because if that were the case, then still it would be in line with living up to the dead John.

I just don't see it. I can't imagine why else he would go. Except to see Scorpius, to see the wormhole technology, to see if he can do something, have something that's exclusively his. Something that's burrowed more deeply into his brain than Aeryn has, lately. Dunno. Can't see it any other way.

From: (Anonymous)

Maybe the question is this: why do you think he went to the command carrier? I mean, do you think it was to protect the universe from wormhole weapons at all cost? Do you think it was a noble goal? Because I just don't see this John -- after all he's been through, so alone -- having that kind of altruism in him.

I do. I just do. And yeah, there's fear. There might even be jealousy, but like I said before, and I'm sure I'll say it again, you just give too much weight to one aspect of things. And if John went to the carrier, it was maybe, to live up to the other guy, it was, maybe, the call of wormholes, it was maybe to die alongside Aeryn, it was maybe a million other things. The equation has possibly a hundred variables and you can just take one out and look at it under the microscope, but that's still skewing your subject for the purpose of research.

And altruism is there, blaringly, in the way he treats his friends, in his scene with Pilot, in his empathy with Co-Kura, it's everywhere, because that kind of heroism is still heroism, and it's the one that matters. Not the big exploding heroism. The heroism of the day after, of facing up to the mess others left behind.

When John dreams, he doesn't dream of dying a hero and out-doing his alterego, although placed in similar circumstances he will do the same thing. He dreams of quiet and a simple life. But in the end he'll face up to the scarrans, because he can't have a quiet life if others have no life at all.

There was no anger or bitterness in IYYY. But yes, there was a lot of resignation and regret. I don't think we'll ever agree on this, but we knew that going in, didn't we? *g*

From:

pene.livejournal.com

speaking to the heroism thing. I think there's the option that John does not believe this is his life. I mean, maybe, in some part of him this a fantastic world where the answers will be sorted out in the next episode, so things can't end badly. the only place he's seen blue people is sci-fi. and now it's not fi. and he's sometimes giddy with it but mostly tired of it.

this is a John I can see, with his cowboy hero but not quite invested. With his lack of plan. the John that gets the girl and goes home.

But it's, obviously, not working out. and of course Crais dies. the other John dies and maybe it's still fiction. cause ... there's no other John. but Crais. and Talyn.